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“Attendees will learn from the general presentations and the classrooms, but where the magic really happens is the networking in the hallways. That’s what we think is really special about this.”
— Mike Lessiter, President, Lessiter Media
For this episode of the No-Till Farmer Influencers & Innovators Podcast, brought to you by SOURCE® from Sound Agriculture, President of Lessiter Media, Mike Lessiter, talks about the history of the National No-Tillage Conference, what it’s grown to today, and his thoughts on the future of no-till and the conference. We also hear from Hans Kok, an independent conservation consultant, as he talks about his time at 25 of the 32 conferences, which have been held in January since 1993.
This interview originally appeared in the HAT Soil Health Podcast, a production of Indiana-based farm network Hoosier Ag Today in partnership with the Conservation Cropping Systems Initiative. Hoosier Ag Today has been producing the podcast for a number of years now, promoting soil health practices like no-till and planting cover crops. This episode, along with previous episodes, can be found at hoosieragtoday.com.
Related Content
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- [Video] No-Tilling...Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow with Frank Lessiter
- [Podcast] Revisiting No-Till's Roots with Frank Lessiter
No-Till Farmer‘s No-Till Influencers & Innovators Podcast podcast is brought to you by SOURCE®️ by Sound Agriculture.
SOURCE®️ from Sound Agriculture is a soil activator that gives crops access to a more efficient source of nitrogen and phosphorus. A foliar application of SOURCE provides 25 pounds of nitrogen & phosphorus per acre and enhances micronutrient uptake by stimulating beneficial microbes, and its performance is supported by a cash-back guarantee. Learn more at www.sound.ag.
Full Transcript
Mackane Vogel:
Welcome to the No-Till Farmer Influencers & Innovators Podcast. Brought to you by SOURCE from Sound Agriculture. I'm Mackane Vogel, associate editor of No-Till Farmer. In today's episode, which was recorded at the 32nd annual National No-Tillage Conference, president of Leicester Media, Mike Lessiter, talks about the history of the conference, what it's grown to today, and his thoughts on the future of no-till and the conference. We also hear from Hans Kok, an independent conservation consultant as he talks about his time at 25 of the 32 conferences, which have been held in January since 1993. This interview originally appeared in the HAT Soil Health Podcast, a production of Indiana-based farm network Hoosier Ag Today in partnership with the Conservation Cropping Systems Initiative. Hoosier Ag Today has been producing the podcast for a number of years now, promoting soil health practices like no-till, and planting cover crops. This episode along with previous episodes can be found at hoosieragtoday.com. And now here's farm broadcaster Elise Koning.
Elise Koning:
Hello and welcome to the HAT Soil Health Podcast. I'm here at the 32nd annual National No-Tillage Conference, and I am here with Mike Lessiter, who is part of the publication in charge of that. We're going to talk about the history of the conference, why it's important and how exciting it is to have it here in Indianapolis in a state where we have a lot of soil health systems going in. We have a lot of cover crops. So Mike, welcome to the podcast.
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, it's a great pleasure to be back here. This is where this conference originated 32 years ago this winter, was right here in Downtown Indianapolis. So we're very proud of the history and the heritage here in Indiana. And a pleasure to be with you, Elise. Thank you for having us.
Elise Koning:
And right when I walked in, it was during one of the networking sessions. You have several different vendors out there who are talking with participants, and participants are networking with one another, sharing ideas. There was just a lot of excitement in the year, even as I just walked in this morning.
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah. Yeah, we're really proud of that. It's a formula that we put together back in 1993 when we had the first one. And my dad, Frank, he's the founder of our company and he's been editor of No-Till Farmer for 52 years, if you can believe that, still going strong. But he wanted to have an event that we didn't tell everybody how to do it, they have to put the recipe together. But it was to be very open and sharing and inform about all the ingredients, but farmers needed to put it together themselves, and he caught lightning in a bottle with that networking plan. And it's continued to this day.
Elise Koning:
So tell us a little more about the conference's origins. Why was there a need for this particular conference?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah. I'll go back a little bit before that. My dad was the first editor of No-Till Farmer in the fall of 1972. And he moved our family from Illinois where I was born up to Wisconsin to write this publication. And people thought he was a little bit crazy. He had a good ag journalist name and [inaudible 00:03:37], "No-Till? [inaudible 00:03:38] attach your name to the no-till concept. That's crazy. It's maverick?" And what they did is they started reporting on how to be successful with no-till, how to deal with the management change that is needed. It takes a very good manager to make the transition.
And so started the publication in 1972, and continued to go through the tough 1980s. We almost lost the business in 1989. But he built it back up again. And about 1992 decided that what we really needed to advance it was a gathering of eager no-tillers who would share and be open with one another. And so he made the decision in the summer of 1992 to do one in January 1993, and he expected 250 people to attend, and more than 800 came out here in Downtown Indianapolis for it. Really tested some wills of the hotel. Our staff had to feed people on different levels. They used every inch of square footage in the hotel at that time.
Yeah, the format, we have the general sessions in the big ballrooms where everyone's together at once. Then we have concurrent classrooms where there's five different tracks that someone can choose to go attend. And then the real magic is what we call the peer-to-peer round tables where there is no speaker, we have a moderator who kicks it off, but the farmers just talk to each other and say, "I tried this or does this work for you?" It fast tracked the understanding of no-till and how to adopt it, I think.
Elise Koning:
So starting from the beginning of the No-Till Conference, what was no-till like then, and what changes have taken place up to now to create the system into what it is?
Mike Lessiter:
Right. Right, it's good question. Harry Young did the first commercial plot of no-till in Herndon, Kentucky in 1962, and didn't have the roundup at that time. It was very challenging. There wasn't any equipment that was made for no-till at that time. Allis-Chalmers, which ended up being absorbed by AGCO corporation, they came out with no-till specific equipment in the late 1960s, but just we're getting started in it. And some of the other equipment manufacturers weren't real eager to see no-till take off. That means that you don't need the super-heavy horsepower tractors, don't need the heavy iron to drag around the field anymore. So it wasn't like... There was a bit of an uphill battle to, one, educate, get the equipment manufacturers on board, some key events like the Field Day in Tennessee helped solidify it. I know I've heard a lot of people say that when John Deere came out with their no-till drill and their no-till planter, that's when you knew that no-till had arrived here. And it was a serious part of agriculture.
Still, like my dad wrote this history book From Maverick to Mainstream, and that's how I would describe where we've come from. Not quite fully mainstream yet, but it's growing every year and we're getting new products specific to no-till and handling the residue, the chemical formulations to handle the weeds that farmers historically use tillage for. But it's really given farmers their life back. They don't need to be dragging things across the field all the time. That they can enjoy their time with their families and kids ball games. You hear some of that here and that's... Gives purpose to what we're doing, letting them farm more efficiently and more profitably.
Elise Koning:
Let's talk a little bit more about the lifestyle of no-till. How does it look different from some other systems and how has it beneficial to the farmer?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah. Some obvious ones that are benefits are the equipment costs. Like I said, we don't need the heavy horsepower tractors like we once did to pull plows around and heavy tillage tools. And of course, not having to cultivate the land several times gives hours back. The diesel cost is far less with no-till because you're not operating the equipment and dragging the tillage tools around. A lot of these guys, they're getting ready, they plant in the spring, they will make a few passes on their land to take care of weeds and fertilize. But yeah, there's a significant benefit in time. And now labor, labor's such a big thing too, is that no-till's allowed some of these farmers to farm much bigger acreages than they ever could have dreamt of when they had to do all that work themselves.
Elise Koning:
So here at the conference, what role has the conference and your publication played in being able to share information about no-till and take it from maverick to mainstream?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, that's a great question. And the way we look at it is we're putting the party together, we're putting the show on, but the magic is really from all the farmers who come. That includes the speakers, of course. But like this year at the event, I think we have 40% of the attendees are first-timers. And so they're here to learn. And they will learn from the general presentations in the classrooms, but where the magic really happens is that what we call the in-the-hallway networking where they might meet someone at lunch like we just had, get to know them, ask them a lot of questions. Others are calling out the landmines for them. And that's what we think is really special about this. And then of course, we report on the best of the best ideas in No-Till Farmer magazine. But yeah, our role is to put the gathering together and then get out of the way.
Elise Koning:
You're listening to the HAT Soil Health Podcast. We're here at the National No-Tillage Conference, and I'm talking with Mike Lessiter from No-Till Farmer. You're talking a lot about the excitement of the conference and just people talking back and forth. Some of the feedback that I've heard from people who have come to this conference is that it just set them on fire. They became really excited about soil health systems and they started talking to their neighbors about it. What are some of the success stories that you have heard over the years from people going to the conference and then going back home and implementing something that they heard about?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, there's some doozies in there. My dad told me a story about a farmer came to that very first one here in Indianapolis in 1993, had not no-till a single acre, and called back a couple weeks later and said he sold off his plow and he was going 100% in no-till on 100% of his acres, which is not normally what we would recommend for someone. But he came to that event, was so impassioned by it and ran the economics and figured this is what he was going to do. He also made the decision to sell off the toys so he couldn't go back to it. He was all in and he was destined to make it work. It was hard back then, a total management change there.
We hear a lot of stories about that, is that some people came and said, "This reinvigorated me about farming and how I could move to no-till and carry more acres. Again, have more time for my family to do what we want to do." And a lot of friendships, that's the coolest part. We have six people who've been to all 32 of them, which is just amazing to me. And we have a lot that are 20 and above. I have 20 this year because I missed the first few when I was working in Chicago before I came back to the family business.
But there is very much a family reunion element to this, and I think it dates back to what started here in 1993, is that at that time, as I understand it, a lot of farmers who were interested in no-till and doing no-till avoided the coffee shop because there was still some ridicule back there that was called ugly farming or lazy farming. They caught some heat there. And when we put this gathering together, they found their own people and were very open sharing knowledge that you wouldn't have expected in a local regional meeting. Part of that is because some of these people were hundreds of miles away. But there's a lot of stories about the specialness and the uniqueness of the group that we're real proud to have a small role in that.
Elise Koning:
So talk a little bit about no-till and the no-till system that adds to soil health. What is the message of no-till and what is the goal of having that system?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah. We look at the no-till system, it's about leaving the residue on the soil that cares for the soil all year long. If you look at some of the other things that have happened out there in tillage areas, a lot of dust, a lot of soil ends up in the ditches or runs off. The purists that you meet here, they want to keep the soil exactly where it was and that their grandfathers had taken care of too. So there's very much very conservation-oriented keeping that soil going. Cover crops has become a very big thing here to keep something growing on that soil all year long, keep it where it is, keep the nutrients there. Earthworms are an enormous benefit of the no-till system. If you go and dig up a farm that's been in no-till for some time, you'll see an incredible population of earthworms who are doing that important work below the surface.
So very conservation-oriented. We have... The traditional no-till will use chemical to get rid of the weed. We also have this regenerative movement that is reducing the inputs out there. And we have a speaker here who's also talking about how he's made organic no-till work. So a lot of interesting things happening right now and a lot of attention nationally with the climate-smart programs on what no-till can do for the environment, for the economy all the way around.
Elise Koning:
Yeah, and with that attention, what kinds of benefits have you seen for having that attention to no-till and the soil health systems?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, I think the understanding on soil health has come up tremendously in a short period of time. Of course everyone in my job as an ag media person is covering that right now. But yeah, there's a lot of dollars available to move toward conservation agriculture systems. We think that it's here for a significant growth curve. We also have another publication called Strip-Till Farmer at our place. And what we're seeing there is that there's some conventionally tilled farmers who no-till seem like maybe too much of a stretch to go to, strip-till is the best of both worlds. We've seen people move to strip-till who've also then over the course of time moved to no-till. And so there's just a lot going on. In addition to our No-Till Farmer publication, we also publish, like I said, Strip-Till Farmer and Cover Crop Strategies is our newest one that is all about how to make this cover crop system work.
Elise Koning:
One of the things that I found interesting in looking through the program and some of the different topics is that some of the speakers are talking about the challenges with no-till. There's one roundtable discussion that talks about slugs. There's one speaker who's talking about both the benefits and challenges of no-till. What is the philosophy behind that in talking about the tough things along with the good things?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, that's a great question. Thank you for asking that. It was never intended to be a rah-rah, no-till's great program that you can see some other ones doing that. There was another one at the time that was getting started about the same time were. It was my dad's philosophy that to do this right, we have to talk about the challenges as well as the successes and really unearth. And we don't want anyone to have a lack of information when moving into this concept. And some of the best presentations that you'll see here this week were that very thing that, "This is what I encountered in year one, this is how I managed it in year two" and then so on and so forth. It can take some time to get it where you need to go. And then as the new tools and hybrids and cover crop mixes come out, there's constant evolution. It's very, very dynamic, which also is part of the fun of it.
Elise Koning:
So talking about this system, taking some time to get into and get past those challenges, what would you say to someone who wanted to start no-till, but they were some of those challenges and were thinking, "Is this really worth the long-term effort?"?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, I would invite them to come here and network fully, upon returning home... Where no-till really grows is there's always a support system there. The extension people or a fellow farmer who will open up for field days, or the associations, the farmer-led associations and organizations that are dotting the countryside. So yeah, our message, and I think most of the people here would say don't do it alone. Use your resources. Some of the equipment dealers are very... Not all of them, but some of them are very well-versed in how to make this system work. And there's a lot of resources out there to do it. We're doing our best to try to make that easier for them. But of course it takes some shoe leather back at home to make it happen too.
Elise Koning:
So this is a dynamic conference with a lot of dynamic speakers. Let's think about the future now. What does the future of the no-till system look like, and what does the future of the No-Till Conference look like as well?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah. The outlook for no-till, there's still significant growth that is still out there. We're in the thirties and 40% of adoption rates. You go to other nations around the world and some of them are here this week where they've adopted no-till much faster because they had to, Brazil being one example. The soil erosion was so critical that they had to do something and they turned to no-till and really made it work in a very high adoption rate there.
I think that the conference, we like to try some new things with it, like to find a wow factor every year. But I think that the format has proven itself out over the last 32 years. So we're probably unlikely to mess with the format a whole lot. But yeah, we have an advisory board who tells us what they think we should do. And good presenters and we have many from the state of Indiana here. Indiana's been great to us. This is a state that really does have the resources, the amazing resources to help farmers get there. And that's why there's more no-till in Indiana than there is in, say, Illinois. Part of the reason, I'm sure.
We had great support here in the state of Indiana, Mike Starkey held a pre-conference workshop out at his farm. That's the first time we've ever done that, is go to a farmer's place for the pre-conference webinar. And he had several speakers from here in the state of Indiana, showed everybody how his planter was set up. Great learning and just great support here.
Mackane Vogel:
We'll come back to the episode in a moment, but first I'd like to thank our sponsor SOURCE from Sound Agriculture for supporting today's podcast. Do you want to make your fertilizer plan more efficient? Source it. SOURCE from Sound Agriculture optimizes the amount of crop nutrition supplied by the microbes in your soil, providing 25 pounds of nitrogen and phosphorus per acre. It's a cost-effective alternative to live biologicals that you can throw in the tank and spray in season. If you want to unlock your crop's potential and increase ROI, there's only one answer, source it. Learn more at sound.ag. And now let's get back to the episode.
Elise Koning:
Tell us more about that pre-conference tour. What gave you the idea to do that?
Mike Lessiter:
We have often had pre-conference workshops that we hold at the host hotel. What we hadn't done was go out to someone's farm and really let them see the operation, understand the challenges, the planter setups. Everyone is always interested in how a fellow no-tiller is setting up their planter for their local conditions. And so the ability to go in there and to walk his facility, look at how things are set up was really, really important to a lot of people. And so I think there... I want to say there was a hundred or so people out there yesterday that came in early just to take in the Mike Starkey farm experience.
Elise Koning:
And how many people are at the conference this year?
Mike Lessiter:
We think with walk-ups, we'll probably be north of 800. That was the number I just checked on a moment ago. From that, there were 263 first timers, which is exciting for us because now there's more people going back to their communities and sharing what they learned and what they think the prospect is for no-tillage. We're always thrilled to see the first-timers. And I know the old guard, those people who have been for 20 years or more, they're encouraged in high-stepping when they see the younger folks coming in.
Elise Koning:
Yes. And you talked about the international community coming in as well. What countries are represented and what are some of the challenges that they're seeing in their no-till systems?
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, that's a great question. We always get some internationals. We don't really market to them. We're really a North American publication is how we view ourselves. But we have people from the Czech Republic, Ukraine, Canada, Hungary, Brazil, Italy. We've got a group of farmers that are coming over from Ukraine. They got in here this morning through some support of the Howard Buffett Foundation. He is very active in the Ukraine and trying to help the farmers there get up and going and increase their standard of living and farm as... He recommends that it be done with no-till and cover crops. And so that was a very generous and special program. That was one of the first-timers where we... First time that we had done that, a group of Ukrainian farmers, and they have... I'm looking forward to speaking with them through the translator just to hear about the challenges they're having right now, which is far more than just soil health and economics of farming, right?
Elise Koning:
Yes. There's a lot going on in that area. And Howard Buffett with him helping them, I see that you have him on the program for tomorrow. What will he be speaking about?
Mike Lessiter:
This is the first time he's been to the conference in about 10 years, maybe even a little longer. He is a major champion of no-till. He's got farms all over the Midwest and worldwide. It's a moderated discussion with Barry Fisher who's right here from the state of Indiana too. And I'm not certain exactly what we're going to see yet, but Howard, he's fun to listen to. He's got wonderful stories. And I'm sure he's going to share his vision of how no-till is the solution to a lot of the world's famine. That's a topic very close to his heart. I will say the last time that he spoke was a very emotional and wonderful presentation over dinner like 13 years or so ago, and he surprised everybody with a gift at every place setting there. That was just one of those moments that you can't easily repeat. But just a great supporter, a great friend of our organization, and we're fortunate to have that support.
Elise Koning:
And what are some of your favorite moments from the conferences over the years?
Mike Lessiter:
Boy, there's a lot of them. We've had people who met here who got engaged and got married. We've had several marriage proposals take place here. There's a lot of fun with this crowd who knows itself very well. A lot of Packers and Bears jokes, of course. Yeah, there's been so many... Tough to single one out. There's been a lot of them. And it's just very, very positive group. One thing that... You're in the event business, some things will go wrong and the farmers just roll with it and are there to support us with this Jamie Scott thing I was just telling you about, the hotel was scrambling to get chairs in there, and the farmers stepped up and unloaded all the chairs for them. No one asked them to, it's how they do things. And I feel very fortunate to work in this business.
Elise Koning:
So if somebody was to ask you, "Why should I come to the National No-Tillage Conference?" What would you say?
Mike Lessiter:
I would say number one reason to come is because for this two, two and a half days that you'll spend here, you'll go home reinvigorated about what you're doing. You'll validate the path that you're on, or you'll learn something that will challenge that path that you are on. And it's just a think tank. It's high energy. You'll meet some great friends, some people... And boy, to meet a great friend, a farmer in another state that you can draw on and have their number in your phone to call when you have a problem I think it's invaluable. But the knowledge is certainly something that is difficult to put an ROI on, but you'll enjoy the conference. And I do think you'll go home feeling energized and enthusiastic about the changes you're going to make for the coming year. And a lot of people do make changes. Having the conference in January, this far ahead of planting, it gives us time to test some things out, do some trials, take a look at doing some different things.
Elise Koning:
So Mike Lessiter with No-Till Farmer here on the HAT Soil Health Podcast with us. As we wrap up, what final thoughts would you have for our audience?
Mike Lessiter:
Just appreciate the chance to talk with you. Thank you for the invitation. We're just very excited about the prospects of no-till and the other conservation ag practices, cover crops. The no-tillers have adopted cover crops tenfold of the average farmer, and we just think there's great days ahead. If we can help any of you figure that out, we'd love that the opportunity to do so.
Elise Koning:
And how would someone contact you for that support?
Mike Lessiter:
The easiest way would be to go to the website, it's www.notillfarmer.com. In addition to the print publication, we have virtual events. We have one coming up for cover cropping. We run a summer event on the strip-tillage practice. Yeah, there's daily email newsletters that can be signed up. We are trying to really put together a comprehensive library to help people make that transition.
Elise Koning:
Mike, thanks so much for this conversation live at the 32nd annual National No-Tillage Conference. It's great to talk with you and learn more about the event.
Mike Lessiter:
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, Elise, really appreciate it.
Elise Koning:
We also have with us Hans Kok on the podcast, and he has been to 25 out of the 32 National No-Tillage Conferences. What is it about this conference that you enjoy so much that you've been to so many?
Hans Koch:
I've been in the no-till industry and regenerative agriculture for 30, 40 years now, and this is the one conference that is really a big uplifter. The whole year you get a lot of skeptical people, "Oh, I cannot do no-till. It won't work on my soils." You come to this conference, most of the speakers are farmers who are actually doing these practices and have been doing for a long time, or even newbies that are just starting. And it's always really uplifting and positive that you get a great group of people who have been doing the things you're promoting all year long and people are pushing back that it won't work. And so here you come and yes, it does work.
Elise Koning:
So you mentioned being a promoter of no-till. What is your position and what is your occupation as far as promoting the no-till system?
Hans Koch:
Right now I'm a independent conservation consultant based out of Indianapolis. Before that, I worked for extension services in Kansas, in Washington, the state of Idaho, promoting conservation tillage, no-till, water conservation. So been in a number of different roles doing the same thing basically. And so the No-Till Conference has always been the one I didn't want to miss every year because exactly what that's all about. And it gives you a whole different aspect to the field than the professional conferences that are out there, like the American Society of Agronomy. It's nice for technical stuff, but if you really want to know about how farmers are implementing this on their farm, how to actually make money, and they're successful with it, this is the conference to go to.
Elise Koning:
So Mike's been talking about the importance of no-till systems and soil health. We like hearing about soil health here on the HAT Soil Health Podcast. Why is no-till an important system for farmers?
Hans Koch:
It started out as erosion control. We had some horrific erosion in certain places in the United States and worldwide actually, and people figured out with no-till, you can really bring that down dramatically. But in general, in agriculture, we have really neglected one part of the system, and that's the biology. We've looked at the soil for a long time as a little chemistry set. It just holds the plant roots in place and you add what the plants need, fertilizers, insecticide, pesticides, whatever you need. And we have not really studied what is happening below the soil. Over the years we figured out that is a very important part of it. And if you neglect that, that is more than half the equation of farming that you are ignoring.
So it's a good thing that the whole system is changing that way. To talk about soil health. I bet you 20 years ago you get left out of room if you talked about soil health because what soil health? Soil erosion was already a taboo topic you didn't want to talk about because it takes five bushes of soil to get a bushel of crop. That was the adage. They didn't realize all the off-farm costs that associated with it. The dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico. And now basically having our whole agriculture really dependent on serious input.
You see a lot of these folks that are doing no-till, and especially the ones that introduce cover crops in that whole equation and looking more as a regenerative approach to agriculture, those inputs are not nearly as important, and they can withstand big wild changes in weather, much better on their farm, droughts, floods because the soil takes in water much better. It holds the water much better. And so do crops do much better on their really extreme conditions. So it's beautiful to see that a group of farmers have figured out how to make that work on their place.
And as you probably see from the number of farmers here and where they're from, this is an international conference. We have people from South America, we have people from Europe, Asia, and everywhere in the United States. And so it shows that wherever you are, whatever your soils are, whatever your climate is, somebody's figured out how to make this system work. And it's really very powerful to be among a group of people like that.
Elise Koning:
So Hans, we've mentioned a little bit about with Mike about some of the challenges that no-till farmers face. One of the unique areas of this conference is that speakers are talking about challenges like slugs or comparing benefits versus challenges. Why do you find it important that we're talking about some of those obstacles that no-till farmers might face here at the conference?
Hans Koch:
It's usually important because, like one of the speakers mentioned today even, the magazines give all this rosy picture of how things are going to go and the success stories because that's what people want to read. But here in this conference, people are very willing to share their failures, which is at least as important. Speaker this morning said of the 10 things he tries, eight might not work. And the two are so important for him to move forward on the farm that he keeps taking those risks and trying those things. And that is one thing people need to realize. There is no cookbook for these systems. You have to really make it work for your condition on your farm, your soils, your climate, your crop rotation.
Although a lot of farmers in this conference after attending it for a number of years, are really changing their crop rotations, which goes totally against the system we have right here in the US right now, and even in Europe with commodity crops getting really pushed. We have people reintroducing wheat and alternative crops in the rotation because they can actually make money doing that, and it is very good for their soil and makes their system more resilient.
The other thing is that we have really separated livestock from crop farming, and that works to a certain extent, but if you start reintegrating those either by working with livestock producers or introducing livestock back to your own operation, it gives you a whole bigger array of options on making your farm successful. Even with people not wanting to deal with livestock, if you can team up with a livestock producer, it gives them an option to graze their cattle on different fields. Some of the technology coming on board right now with fenceless pastures on cattle, it's pretty mind-boggling what the options are now for farmers.
Elise Koning:
So of your 25 years attending the conference here, what are some of the moments that really stand out for you?
Hans Koch:
It's always the farmers because most of the speakers are farmers. Now, I worked for extension all those years, and I've been a speaker at this conference a couple times, but farmers basically explaining why they changed. And some of these farmers were on the brink of losing the farm and they had to make a drastic change. And hearing their stories, they're heartbreaking stories about losing the farm, but by going to no-till and reintegrating livestock in their operations and then doing some really drastic things that... Even in the extension system we didn't understand when they started doing them. And then hearing the stories, how successful they were with them, that is the highlight every year. There's always some farmer that has something figured out, and that's the beauty of this conference.
Elise Koning:
We're here with Hans Kok live at the National No-Tillage Conference. He's an independent consultant. So Hans, what do you see in your work as far as some success stories with no-till?
Hans Koch:
I've always been very dependent on farmers. As a university person even I was talking about no-till and what all the benefits were. I always tried to have farmers with me on the program because I would go back to the university campus after I gave my talk. These farmers get on the tractor and go actually do it. So I try to explain the principles and then the farmers do the on-the-ground stuff. This is the place to find these great folks you can work with that are good speakers on top of that, because a lot of farmers are shy and they want to be on their own on the farm. The people here are much more outgoing and they're willing to share their stories and that's the beauty of it. They're open to people asking questions, they're willing to admit to their failures, and that's the beauty of this conference.
Elise Koning:
Hans Kok, any final thoughts as we start to wrap up?
Hans Koch:
When you see the National No-Tillage Conference coming to your general area, it's usually moving back and forth through the Midwest, coming out you get to talk to a lot of farmers also in very different cropping systems. It's a very interesting conference.
Elise Koning:
What advice would you give for somebody who's interested in no-till and doesn't quite know where they want to start?
Hans Koch:
This conference might be a little overwhelming because we have from beginners to very advanced no-tillers, but it's good to get the vibe and find a place where you can go to ask questions. The organizers of this conference, Lessiter Publications have No-Till Farmer. That's a great magazine to subscribe to. It's a monthly. You can get a lot of information from farmers who are putting things on the ground. And there are groups of farmers nationwide talking about these topics. There's some on the social media, there's some groups where people really can get a lot of information. Got to be a little careful as a beginning farmer that you find somebody not too far away from you who's actually been doing it because conditions are so different in different states. You can get a fabulous story out of Oklahoma and it will never work for you in Indiana. So between finding a support group of farmers who've been doing these kind of practices and finding somebody not too far from your place to see what the details are, how you can make it work.
Elise Koning:
And Hans, if somebody wanted to learn more about your work or get a hold of you for support, where could they find you?
Hans Koch:
hanskokllc@gmail.com it's probably the best place to get a hold of me.
Elise Koning:
All right, thank you so much Hans for joining us on the podcast today.
Hans Koch:
You're welcome.
Elise Koning:
For Hoosier Ag Today, I'm Elise Koning. Thanks so much for joining us on the HAT Soil Health Podcast, brought to you by the Conservation Cropping Systems Initiative.
Mackane Vogel:
That's it for this episode of the No-Till Farmer Influencers & Innovators Podcast. Thanks to Hoosier Ag Today Podcast for that great interview. And thanks also to our sponsor SOURCE from Sound Agriculture for helping to make this podcast possible. A transcript of this episode and our archive of previous podcast episodes are both available at notillfarmer.com/podcasts. For our entire staff here at No-Till Farmer, I'm Mackane Vogel. Thanks for listening, keep on no-tilling, and have a great day.
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